Vegans: Are you 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', or have an alternative perspective on abortion?


If you are a vegan, I am wondering: What are your personal beliefs around ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-choice’ in the context of humans, pregnancy, and abortion? 

This is probably the shortest blog post ever, but I’m curious about this question and would like to know, if you are vegan, what your stance is and how it ‘fits’ into your vegan philosophies.

The only reason I ask this is because I find it curious how ‘life’ is defined and how it is valued, in the human context and beyond. I remember running into a vegan man about 7 years ago who said he thought it was strange that certain human beings eat animals ‘without conscious’, but are hard-core ‘pro-life’ for pregnant humans. Alternatively, he found it ‘peculiar’ that many vegans who become vegan to abstain from killing/harming non-human animals are ‘pro-choice’ when it comes to their stance on human reproductive choice. He thought it was oxymoronic to be a pro-life meat-eater and a pro-choice vegan. However I’m not convinced at all that it is that simple and wanted to open up the dialogue about this amongst vegans.

And yea, I’ve met plenty of pro-choice meat eaters and pro-life vegans too.

So, let’s talk about this!

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112 thoughts on “Vegans: Are you 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', or have an alternative perspective on abortion?

    1. I think it would be more interesting to talk about how you all deny science, which states definitively that the baby can feel it when you stick a pike through its heart!

      1. Agreed. Startling how many people do not seem to understand this simple concept and so very sad. This is a BABY that is being discussed!

    2. I agree. As a pro-life supporter and a vegan I see it as once consent has been given-that is consensual sex- both parties must assume the possibility of pregnancy. Therefore they have made an oath to care for-or at the very least allow for- the development of that life form.
      Additonaly, the rights of the man or woman to decide for an abortion should never come before the rights of a living thing. This is more of my vegan side coming out. I believe that life is independently meaningful, absent language, cognitive reasoning, a job, etc, the fact that something is alive is enough reason to respect it. Furthermore when that life form is able to suffer or has a great potential to develop those traits then there is no justification for placing someone’s rights over that individual life.
      And lastly, many people argue that the woman should have a right to her body, but scientifically isn’t the fetus genetically different from the mother? So at the paint, symbiotically, they share a parasitic relationship, but it isn’t part of the mothers actual body that she would be killing in an abortion.
      Just my two cents, I’m 100% open minded about this so if I’m wrong in anyway let’s discuss this civilly.
      Thanks 🙂

      1. “This is more of my vegan side coming out. I believe that life is independently meaningful, absent language, cognitive reasoning, a job, etc, the fact that something is alive is enough reason to respect it. Furthermore when that life form is able to suffer or has a great potential to develop those traits then there is no justification for placing someone’s rights over that individual life.”

        Totally with you on that. I think that life has a certain value that doesn’t depend on the intelligence or ability to use human language. Someone should not be killed for being different because they did not choose to be what they are.

  1. Peoples lives get ruined by unwanted pregnancy. Looking after a kid is a big commitment, I reckon its too big for someone not to have that choice over whether they make it. Im sure many people will say “they shouldve used protection, that was when they had their choice” or something like that, but condoms tear, the pill doesn’t always work, and you don’t have that choice in the case of sexual violence. And sometimes when people are vulnerable – young, drunk, emotionally unstable – they make decision which they regret and wouldnt have made if there heads were clearer. And there are probably more reasons I cant think that might mean people have to make the decision at a later point thant theyd probably want to.

    Ive met people who call themselves prolife because they wouldnt have an abortion themselves, even though they see its personal and think everyone should choose for themselves. Which I wouldnt call pro-life cause that is exactly what pro-choice would mean to me, choosing for yourself whether you can or cant/should or shouldnt have a child/abortion, not trying to say how other people should do things.

    I lived in Ireland most of my life and abortion is illegal there, and cause most people are very catholic theres not much hope of that changing, but because of that women have to travel to other countries if they want to get an abortion – even in cases of sexual violence – which is obviously very expensive, and in a country with such high unemployment not a lot of people can afford to do that so women are forced to have ‘back-alley’ abortions which are really dangerous, enough that people have died. I would hope that this shows to prolife people that theres a need to have access to legal, safe, free abortions, because women are going to have them anyway, and if they are it may as well be safe.

    Sorry if thats a bit all over the place, lots of thoughts and opinions coming into my head at once!

    1. Everything you said can also be put on newborns. Should people have the right to choose to kill newborns because condoms tear and people’s lives get ruined by unwanted children and so on and so forth? We know scientifically it is a living human being just like any of us. If you look up what happens at conception, it will tell you the sperm and egg meeting forms a new human life, and the developmental process that all children are in the midst of starts at conception, and at that moment, the DNA of the man and woman mix, forming completely new and distinct DNA that determines everything it will ever be right then and there.

      The big problem with the “well I think it’s wrong but other people have to choose for themselves” thing is that we don’t do that with anything else. We don’t say that if you think murder in general is bad, you have to allow someone else to do it because it has to be their choice. We more than welcome forcing what we view to be right or wrong on people and making it illegal to kill. Same with rape, child molestation, even stealing. Of course those who don’t think there is anything wrong with it wouldn’t care if other people do it, but I hope one can understand why those who do fight so hard to be against it, and think it’s odd that others who do act like people should be allowed to choose it anyway, only in this one area. If newborns were killed by the millions each year, dehumanized and said to be not worthy of even the most basic right to life, wouldn’t you fight against it and say people shouldn’t be allowed to choose that, no matter how unwanted the child was, how desperate of a situation the mother is in, or if they did everything right and the condom just happened to break?

      Also, the “it has to be legal to be safe” thing is a myth. Dr. Bernard Nathanson was one of the founders of NARAL, and in the 70s after seeing an ultrasound guided abortion, he became pro-life and admitted all of the lies they told to try and sell abortion, one of them being a false figure they made up that 100,000 women had died from illegal abortions so it has to be safe to be legal, and of course this lie still gets spread around today. There weren’t even enough deaths that weren’t already known to be caused by something else in order to account for all of those, so if people actually thought about it, they’d realize how false it was. Another one is that being against abortion comes from the Catholic hierarchy, and anyone opposed to abortion must be under their influence, yet there have always been non-religious pro-lifers. A groundbreaking abortion study from Chile found that illegal abortion is not associated with maternal mortality.

      1. “The big problem with the “well I think it’s wrong but other people have to choose for themselves” thing is that we don’t do that with anything else. We don’t say that if you think murder in general is bad, you have to allow someone else to do it because it has to be their choice.”

        I agree. We don’t do this in other areas so why is abortion different. Also, I am a pro-life atheist and I am glad people know that it does not come from catholic teaching. Actually, I was never told that I should be pro-life. It just made sense.

      2. Wait i’m really confused, part of your argument that abortion should be illegal is that actually women don’t die from illegal abortions? I’d appreciate a link to the study (assume it’s it a peer reviewed journal) but I would be beyond shocked to find out that back alley non sterile abortions are as safe as those done in hospitals and sterile clinics.

  2. I am vegan and pro-choice. The cells in a uterus belong to the person in charge of that body and absolutely no one else. In a similar way, I have the right to absolutely no one else’s body (of any sentient species).

    1. However, the life inside the mother is NOT the mothers. That life has it’s own heart, brain, arms legs, DNA, blood type. In fact the mother lived complete before the pregnancy and will live complete after the pregnancy. She does not lose a part if her when a child is born
      That life is it’s own life and we have no business to terminate that life

      1. Yes. The essential difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is whether they see the life inside as a separate being or part of the mother. I am glad that people are vegan though even when they disagree over abortion.

  3. For me being vegan means not harming or exploiting sentient non-human and human animals. Since, as far as I am informed, most abortions are carried out before the unborn is able to experience pleasure and pain, I don’t see a conflict with being pro-choice and ethical veganism. Furthermore I believe that (even if an abortion is carried out later) the first person to consider is the woman carrying the baby. She is already alive, breathing, feeling and thinking. If for whatever reason she decides that she doesn’t want to give birth to a child, I believe that (difficult) decision has to be respected. In my eyes, forcing her to give birth against her will and thus exercising an immense amount of power over her, is effectively creating harm.
    On a practical level, even if abortions are illegal, they will be carried out and cause much more harm than they would in a safe environment. Recently, a study looked at what happens to women who are denied abortions. You can find an interesting summary here:

    1. If the child in utero does not exist in a Pro-choice Vegan’s world then presumably it can be consumed as a by-product. If we aborted late term lamb your logic suggests there is no ethical issue for the pro-choice vegan consuming that protein. It never existed as a living thing. It follows that a pro-choice vegan would also have no ethical issue with aborted children and animals being harvested for medical experimentation, heart valves, stem cells, and so on. That being the case a pro-choice Vegan in my view follows an incredibly self serving blinkered lifestyle.

      1. We’re talking about women who can freely think and make the choice for themselves, not animals that are artificially inseminated and having their young stolen without means to defend or decide themselves.

        I agree that some people take advantage of the system because they would like to party, are immature and don’t want to take responsibility for their actions but why should anyone else know whats best for their bodies? And would you honestly think someone who would resent their child would be a good mother? There are people out there who need this procedure whether it be because they’re victims of violence, are young and can’t support a child without destroying their lives not just physically but also emotionally or the child has early detected birth defects etc

        There are people in some countries dying. Not the possibility of a person, living, feeling, sentient beings dying because others think they know what’s best for someone else’s body and make them result to measures they usually wouldn’t do if they had the proper procedures.

        It’s not a blinkered opinion

        If you can freely make your own decision about your body, go for it, only you know what’s best.

        But if someone else starts making decisions based on someone else’s feeling, thinking body that’s when it becomes dirty for me.

        Sorry for the rant.

    2. Such a hypocrite. You might as well go eat any near you want. A baby in a womb is its own person. Don’t take one article to make a case on life.

    1. Exactly. This isn’t a matter of “pro-choice” and “pro-life.” Being against a individuals right to safe and legal abortions is anti-choice, not pro-life.

  4. Vegan. Pro-choice. Anything that lives off of someone else’s body is that person’s choice to terminate or not. This includes everything from a fetus to a parasite. I do not harm or kill animals to the best of my ability. But if there is a tick on me, I do not feel as if I need to let that tick stay because I believe in not doing harm or killing animals. I do not believe in martyrdom for our causes. I believe in self empowerment, self love, and care.

    What a person who can get pregnant does with their body is none of my business or anyone else’s. Abortion is healthcare and is between the pregnant person and their health care providers and anyone else they choose to involve in the decision.

    Also, for me, veganism is about consent, suffering, respect, etc- not simply about life. Most fetuses when aborted haven’t even formed pain receptors yet. They are not viable outside the womb. They are using a person’s body to survive and that person is the one who benefits or suffers as a result. That is not comparable to a living breathing being being tortured and killed for people to eat, wear, or test on them. It cannot be compared to abortion because they are completely different issues. Animals, who survive outside the womb, who do not exist for humans, do not consent to their treatment and thus it is wrong. A fetus, while alive (like many living things), is not a consenting being and is also living off of another’s body. Thus, it is the person who owns that body’s choice whether or not to terminate that pregnancy. Even when the fetus is viable outside the womb, it is still that person’s choice. Plus, no women really want late term abortions. No one wants abortion like it’s a fun thing to do. But people who harm and kill animals do so because they want to- to make money, to taste their flesh, etc, this is different.

    If women were being farmed and forcefully impregnated so that people could eat their children, then there might be a way to fit choice in there. But there is not.

    Thanks for starting this discussion. I don’t believe in controlling womens bodies and also do not believe in controlling nonhuman animals’ bodies. That is why I am pro-choice and vegan.

  5. Well, I’m pro-choice. I know many people who question vegans tend to point out how it’s a “contradiction” how they “kill” babies; however, the “kill” part is subjective. I mean, what is a miscarriage?? A woman’s body “naturally” disposes of a child when it needs to–her body knows what’s best. The concept of “abortion” as murder is COMPLETELY cultural and steeped in religion. It’s negative connotation constantly fluctuates!

    Abortion as “murder” is completely cultural and so is veganism. I would never propose a UNIVERSAL vegan law because I would be ignoring particular cultural nuances where veganism is not possible. Therefore, the veganism I subscribe to is based in a culture (the US) that DOES NOT need to eat non-human animal or subscribe to institutionalized slavery for animals just to consume them.

    That however doesn’t mean that I think people in other nations *can’t* eat meat or that non-human animals should not eat meat! It becomes a type of illogical colonization to enforce a very particular nuanced argument (veganism in the US) on every living sentient being because not everyone can practice it or lives in a culture like we do. If women had more “power” in the US, this abortion issue wouldn’t be a debate.

    History shows that women have always tried to terminate their pregnancies. Actually, whenever abortions are “illegal” it’s proven that more women die of botched illegal abortions! So, instead of focusing on the “unborn” child in this debate, let’s focus on the women. Additionally, women of wealth have ALWAYS had access to safe abortions, even when they were illegal! So, this issue is actually about stigmatizing and disenfranchising minorities and poor women.

    This “abortion” vegan issue is merely another way for non-vegan uncritical consumers to “pretend” to care about animals so that they can further remove rights from women when it comes to their bodies. We are not post-culture so we can’t forget that this abortion vegan issue does not exist in a vacuum. Simiarly, we can’t speak about veganism without contextualizing it—that’s actually the project of this Sistah Vegan group—veganism isn’t JUST about diet, it’s about race, gender, class, etc. Similarly, abortion isn’t just about “killing” a child–it’s ALSO about those particular intersections (Race, gender, class, socioeconomic status) that frame a woman’s experience!

  6. “Pro-life” is a misleading term IMO, especially when it only extends to whether or not a woman has control over her own reproductive system. I know someone who strongly identifies as “pro-life” but sees no contradiction in being married to someone who engages in military battle. Similarly, “pro-life” and “pro-death penalty” don’t seem to be an uncommon pairing. Pro-choice and veganism make sense to me, especially when you think of the exploitation of female bodies for animal products. Both issues are about bodies and who controls them.

  7. I am vegan because I am pro-choice. I have been active in reproductive justice for a long time. It was making the connections between the reproductive exploitation of women and of female nonhuman animals, particularly for their milk and eggs, that led me to become vegan. No one should have their sexuality and reproduction controlled by forces outside of their control. There is no contradiction in being pro-choice and vegan. It is only patriarchal control of women that even leads us to think that the state entering women’s bodies and controlling them that way is remotely acceptable.

  8. Hi, Amie. I am pro-life because I think sentience is our way of relating to sentient beings only, not to plants or fetuses of less than two-weeks life. I think we should respect all life forms, but in the end I think the mother is the one who needs to decide wheter to terminate or not in some cases. I think it is a combined position between prolife and pro-choice.

  9. I’ve been pro-choice for years, much, much, longer than I have been vegan and I don’t see a need to change anything. Ultimately, it’s my body and the outcome of unwanted pregnancy in instances outside of abortion, are more challenged than rewarding. Much of the pro-life beliefs are rooted in the catholic church, an institution I don’t participate in. Being pro-choice in no way (to me ) conflicts with being vegan because for myself, veganism is about eliminating suffering in addition to critically thinking about how suffering exists. This spans from my physical body to the world it exists in. It is thru critical though that I am aligned with pro-choice ideals and being vegan just gave it more layers. When I ate an omnivore diet, suffering was a relative term and the intersection of food and issues such as being pro-choice or pro-life didn’t exist. Being an omnivore, in the USA, allows you to disassociate yourself from a slew of very violent and cruel practices. You get to be pro-choice/pro-life in a vacuum.

    But on a side note, it is interesting that you (Dr. Harper) felt inclined to post thinking about a conversation with a MALE vegan. I’ve had my share of interesting conversation on abortion with other men, vegan and non, and sometimes I can’t help myself from cringing. From what you wrote, it seems as though the issue was pretty simplified, which often the men I’ve conversed with on this subject do….

  10. I’m pro-choice AND vegan for the same reason, every sentient being, human and non-human should be entitled to full bodily autonomy. Period. Forcing a human to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term denies her autonomy, forcing a non-human animal to give up his/her life/body for the use of food denies them their autonomy. Plain and simple as that.

  11. Pro-choice. I THINK ANYTHING OTHERWISE IS SEXIST. That a fetus may or may not be capable of experiencing pain is completely irrelevant.

    The question is: is a woman OBLIGATED to donate her body for the purpose of sustaining another life simply because she is biologically capable of doing so? And anyone who views women as autonomous, rational agents (so, a person who isn’t sexist) would have to conclude that only SHE should decide whether or not she is obligated to make use of this biological capacity.

    I’m not sure how one could *consistently* be both pro-life AND vegan. It doesn’t make sense to urge that there is some justification for controlling the bodies of an entire group of beings by virtue of their sex while also claiming there is no justification for controlling the bodies of another group of beings by virtue of their species. . .

  12. I have been Vegan for seven years and as far as abortion goes I am Pro Mind Your Own Damn Business. I feel like abortion is not an option for me, but who am I to tell you what to do with your body and your child. I do however feel there should be policies and stipulations in place for abortion practices. For instance, if you are a female who uses abortion as a form of birth control and you have had multiple abortions you should be refused, put on real birth control and given counseling to find out why you refuse to protect yourself. For all other cases like rape, unwanted pregnancies, and teenage pregnancies, I feel like people should mind their own business.

  13. This is a very provocative discussion. Someone stated above that the prolife position and the idea of abortion being murder was steeped in religious perspective only. That has been the most vocal opinion shown for sure.

    But what about groups like Secular Pro Life(, Gays and Lesbians for Life(, and Feminists for Life? (

    I am a vegan who is prolife, but I also understand that making abortion illegal can cause harm as well when women seek them in dangerous situations. But, I also believe that if more guaranteed support and resources were available to women and young girls who end up in a crisis pregnancy, the choice to abort might not happen as often if they knew that they would not have to give up their education, etc, by choosing to carry a child to term.

    Even though I might be seen as one in the prolife ‘camp’, I am often frustrated by those who share some of my views yet would also attempt to block access to or funding for contraception or vote to lesson government help to those mothers that chose NOT to abort, but keep their baby. ???! THAT, is where I think much of the religious perspective comes in. Many feel the need to try and control the sexual behaviors of others based on their religious beliefs. Just doesn’t make sense in my mind in a pluralistic society like ours.

    That’s my two cents. 🙂

    1. compassion for all. … . except for women who get pregnant and don’t want to carry the baby to term. I guess they don’t deserve compassion because- according to your reasoning- they are not “innocent” (because they had sex?)? Or maybe you don’t see stripping a woman of her bodily autonomy as “harm”. . . .

      1. The woman chose to have sex and therefore she must understand that having sex can result in pregnancy. If she wants to have sex she must understand the repercussions. If she doesn’t want/can’t afford the baby, give it up for adoption.

        I know you may argue ‘What about girls who get raped and want an abortion??’ Well, 95% of abortions are done as birth control, 1% are done because of rape/incest, 1% because of fetal abnormalities, and 3% due to the mother’s health problems.

        So, if only 1% is because of rape/incest that’s pretty insignificant compared to the 95% that have abortions as a form of birth control. Which is sickening.

        And the mothers health being an issue is a ridiculous argument. Our technology is so advanced that a situation like that is almost unheard of.

        If you don’t want a baby, take precautions. If you want to play with fire, you might get burned. Just like if you have sex, you may have a baby.

        If you don’t want a baby, don’t engage in risky behavior. It’s not that hard. ✌️

  14. i feel i am pro life in my choice and trust others in their right to choose what is
    appropriate to the situation in their life. the need to control feminine reproductivity
    is patriarchy’s attempt to harness the power of a woman.
    it is a woman’s right and power to choose if she will carry full term.
    i believe that the fetus is not independently alive until the 2nd trimester.
    so a woman choosing to abort prior to this is endangering her own health
    but not causing harm to another separate being.
    i further believe it may be more noble and compassionate to the unborn
    to terminate the pregnancy than to bring an innocent being into a painful circumstance.

  15. I’m pro choice. I don’t think it’s as clear cut an issue as eating animal products is, as pregnancy is a unique biological position where giving rights to one party means taking them away from the other. Where a pregnancy is unwanted, and not just unplanned, women will go to drastic measures as history has shown- making it illegal won’t prevent it happening, it will only drive it underground and make it unsafe.

  16. I am most definitely 100% pro-choice, not anti-choice. A woman ALWAYS has the right to determine what happens with and to her own body. A fetus may one day become a human person with interests of its own, but while its living within another human autonomous person’s body, it has no rights. A woman’s right to bodily autonomy MUST come before any supposed fetal rights. Anything else is terrorism.

  17. First off, thank you Dr. Harper for initiating this important conversation! I hope you chime in at some point with your reflections on the conversation, as I’m sure we could all learn from them.
    I’m appreciative of the posters above who have foregrounded the importance of context in discussions such as these. For example, what has brought each of us to identify as vegan likely informs our perspectives towards abortion. As an Indian who was raised vegetarian (mostly vegan), it never ceases to blow my mind how U.S.-centric & individualistic most framings of veganism are here in the U.S. On the Indian subcontinent there are literally ancient philosophical, religious, and spiritual systems advocating vegetarianism & (near) veganism that one wouldn’t know the existence of from many vegan discourses here.
    With that said, I’m afraid that many classically leftist/progressive/politically radical approaches to abortion in the U.S. are similarly steeped in a hearty dose of individualism & European enlightenment-based thought. I know that spirituality is an uncomfortable topic in many of these spaces, but what about the countless indigenous worldviews that perceive all life to be sacred, including that of fetuses? This isn’t to say that many native peoples don’t have traditions of using herbal and other abortifacients. I’m just concerned that many of the comments offered thus far and predictable responses to the inquiry given are politically reductionistic in failing to address questions of spirit, community, & genealogy. Many of us come from complex cosmologies & traditions where we cannot write off the karmic & spiritual implications of ending a life as if the decision is primarily based on the well-being of one individual (the mother in question).
    I also must say that I’m uncomfortable with some of the framing of ‘ownership’ of fetuses as justification for termination that have been shared above. As a radical feminist, I’m all for women & all living beings having bodily autonomy. However, on the blog of a project whose mission is framed within a context of de-normalizing slave relations between living beings and challenging neoliberal capitalist ways of relating to each other, I have faith that we can imagine less propertied justifications for any of our arguments. Even if Judeo-Christianity, patriarchies, & the capitalist obsession with controlling female bodies have played enormous roles our collective political histories, let’s not let them monopolize our imagination as we move forward in trying to understand the relationship between veganism & abortion.
    Personally, I’m pro-life. I don’t want to impose any normative judgement & know that criminalizing abortion in the U.S. has deeply classist & sexist implications. So my pro-life advocacy is tenuous & comes with visions of lots of harm reduction strategies for making reproductive decisions more informed, healthy, accessible, & consensual. Yet I do believe something deeper happens metaphysically when abortion takes place that often isn’t addressed in partisan rhetoric & secular forms of radical political storytelling. Finally, (while on the topic of reproductive justice) I’m also curious to know what other vegans think of forcible sterilization of human & non-human animals?

    1. You’re distorting the pro-choice position and just saying random things.

      1) No one is claiming that a woman *owns* her fetus. We are claiming that a woman owns her *body*. If she is the owner of her body, that means she is the only person who should decide if she will donate her body or parts of her body to save another person’s life, whether that person is her child, her sibling, her spouse, a saint, an innocent stranger, etc. [In this situation, the “other life” is the fetus; the donated “body part” is the womb (and all the other stuff that goes into sustaining a fetus)].

      2) Believing that life is sacred does not entail endorsing a government that forces people to donate their organs and bodies to other people in need. My refusal to donate a kidney to a person who might die without it is not evidence that I don’t find life sacred.

      3) I’m not sure the collectivist/ individualistic binary applies here. I don’t think “lack of bodily autonomy” is a prerequisite to a collectivist society. (Also, truth-bomb: collectivist societies and deeply spiritual world views can be sexist too. . . )

      4) The whole “well-being of one individual [ the mother]” vs. “the well-being of [I don’t know what’s supposed to fill in this blank .. the community?]” is a pretty shady route to take, don’t you think? How is it good for the community to force women to carry their pregnancies to term when they do not desire it?

      5) I’m so tired of hearing the view that abortions can be avoided if we just make women “more informed” about their choices as if wanting an abortion indicates pathology or ignorance or lack of choice. (If anything, we need to make abortions more accessible and stop stigmatizing it). Sorry but many women just don’t want to have babies for whatever reason (which should be no one’s business) and you can “inform” the hell out of them and they still won’t want babies and if they get pregnant they’ll just want an abortion. Just because we have the biological capacity to grow babies doesn’t entail there is some deep metaphysical or spiritual necessity to make use of it .

      1. Hi SYL K,
        Thanks for the response. I’m not distorting ‘the pro-choice’ position, in part b/c there isn’t just one. The comment section of this post clearly demonstrates that. Also, I’m not sure what you thought was random that I said, but I can certainly respond to your concerns in turn:
        1- Why do we have to assert ‘ownership’ over our bodies to defend bodily integrity & justice? This is a contradictory logic for a woman of color feminist position. You’re fighting for a bigger piece of the pie that’s poisoning us when we could be imagining non-state, rights-based, & capitalist ‘solutions.’ Who caused & supports many of these problems to begin with? Oh right, the state that you’re seeking redress from. Why look there when we could be talking about community autonomy? By the way, Silvia Federici has a great book (Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body, & Primitive Accumulation) that shows how this idea of relating to our bodies as ‘possessions’ that we ‘own’ was key to early capitalist exploitation of worker’s bodies & was systemically distributed throughout the world via colonization. Sounds like a toxic view of the body that has nothing to do with how I’m interested in perceiving my flesh or anyone else’s.
        2- I didn’t advocate “endorsing a government that forces people to donate their organs and bodies.” This mentality is part of what I’m critiquing. Why should any of the ways that we relate to our bodies inherently involve a settler state? It’s one thing to talk about potential policy implications of arguments we may support. That’s fine. But Dr. Harper asked a much broader, philosophically deeper question than just what governmental political policy any of us advocate.
        3- I won’t ‘truth bomb’ you back b/c I’m not super into militaristic metaphors, but reality check: it’s pretty eurocentric to respond to a call to recognize the existence indigenous worldviews in a conversation that’s been markedly liberal/leftist by saying ‘those communities can be sexist, you know.’ Ah, all societies can be sexist, and communities of color sure don’t need to be discouraged from considering our intellectual traditions by invoking the specter of ‘sexist dark people.’ And concern of spiritual communities being sexist too? As opposed to what, the feminist utopia that is Science and Logic with a capital S and L? That logic is colonial & what’s largely considered Western European science and European enlightenment-based logic are just as theological as any other tradition. More dangerous in their pretense of objectivity, though.
        4- Who said that making decisions based upon any criteria other than privileging the individual unit in a vacuum necessitates compulsory pregnancy?
        5- I certainly never said anything about the need to avoid abortions through information. Careful reading, anyone? I’m also disturbed at the complicity with the medical industrial complex that seems to be taking place in this conversation. Can access to abortion be life-saving for many women? Of course. But does that mean that we need to romanticize it, devoid of any analysis of the medical industry that accompanies it?
        Finally, it’s a trip how many of the comments on this thread assume one universal reason for being vegan and impose that assumption upon all of us. What blog are we on, again?

      2. What do you mean there isn’t one pro-choice position?? The “pro-choice position” simply means the woman carrying the fetus decides whether or not she wants to terminate/ continue on with her pregnancy. That’s it. It’s pretty broad. What else does pro-choice imply??

        1. The only reason we have to “assert ‘ownership’ over our bodies to defend bodily integrity and justice” is because we continue to exist in a world where women’s bodies are STILL PERCEIVED TO BE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE TO MEN. When I say I “own” my body or that my body is “mine”, I just mean to say that I am the fundamental arbiter regarding decisions about my body because my body is the public “me”.

        Again, I’m struggling to understand why you place “community autonomy” contra bodily autonomy. This reads to me like a false opposition. I imagine that communities can self-govern and, hence, retain agency while also allowing for community members to retain agency over their bodies.

        2. The question Breeze asked was this (verbatim): “What are your personal beliefs around ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-choice’ in the context of humans, pregnancy, and abortion?” Pro-life and pro-choice are actual positions. I took it that the “philosophical depth” of the response to Breeze’s question should lie in how we- AS VEGANS- stand in relation to these positions (including the possibility that our veganism forces us to adopt some alternative position with regard to abortion). I’m not sure what other “philosophical” ruminations you’re expecting with regard to her question. . . hence my charge that you’re just being random.

        3. How it is eurocentric to point out that other societies might be sexist even though they are spiritual and/ or communal (as opposed to individualistic)?

        4. Well, THAT IS SOMETHING I ASKED YOU TO CLARIFY! We’re talking about abortion here and you asked whether or not it was a good idea to privilege the well-being of the individual (the mother). YOU raised that point, not me. . . I was simply confused as to why you raised it.

        5. Um, YOU were the one romanticizing the childbearing capacity by invoking “karmic and spiritual” implications of terminating pregnancy. I said (in so many words) that many women just don’t want babies and will want abortions if they become pregnant. No romanticization in that claim. It was just another truth-bomb.

        Finally, no one is assuming a universal motivation for veganism here (at least not from what I’ve read thus far). However, there might be similar motivations for embracing the pro-choice position, which is not an imposition. . .. We’re just sharing those motivations.

  18. I reject use of the term ‘pro-life’ as the opposite of pro-choice. I believe one can only be either anti-choice or pro-choice. I am the latter, and I am pro-life! Being pro-choice is not ‘pro or con’ thinking, it is an expansive position leaving plenty of room for a woman to decide for herself whether she wants to remain pregnant and give birth, or decide for herself that she does not wish to carry a fetus to term for whatever reasons are important to her.

  19. I don’t see anything about pro-choice ethics that is at odds with veganism. In a word, veganism is not about ‘life;’ it is primarily about *sentience.* I avoid using animals because they feel, think, and have the capacity to suffer; not simply because they are alive. There is no evidence that human fetuses are sentient before the 7th month of gestation, and the vast majority of abortions are performed within the first 3 months of a pregnancy. The few that are performed later are almost always done either because the woman was unable to access an abortion at an earlier point or because there is a fatal complication with the pregnancy.

    All of that being said, I don’t believe that anything or anyone has an inherent right to use a person’s body without their consent. An embryo growing inside a woman who does not want to be pregnant is doing just that. In this case, the woman’s rights to bodily autonomy and self-determination trump the rights of the embryo. If one acknowledges that women are full human beings and not simply incubators, this should go without saying.

  20. As I assume we would all agree, abortion is not something a woman does for ‘fun’ or without thought. In some places we allow women to choose abortion. But I wonder why our society doesn’t extend the idea of choice. If having a baby means meeting financial commitments that aren’t available then why do we not assist these families. Or if having a baby means emotional stress that can’t be dealt with why don’t we assist at that point. And so on. Why stop at abortion as the only choice. Give a whole range of choices.Do women choose to have an abortion or do they feel they have no ‘choice’? As a vegan I am pro-choice and pro-life which for me means allowing women to choose for themselves but my biggest concern is we limit the choices a woman (and her partner/s if he/she is involved as sometimes this can be the case) has. Severely.

  21. Pro-Choice & Pescatarian. Do I feel guilty about the seafood? Sometimes.

    But, it would be impossible to perceive saving every life form, and ridiculous as well as unrealistic to avoid even stepping on bugs as the Jain religion (predecessors to Buddhism) did. It is a natural part of the food chain and evolutionary process to consume (to a certain degree animal matter). Remember that one of the largest manufacturers of animal suffering is the gasoline/coal industry; which causes massive animal habitat problems. And, most of us drive the last time that I checked. The point is: Many choose not to eat meat for various reasons; including to be more humane towards animals, and avoiding GMO’s wherever possible. The point is to reduce suffering as much as possible. Even the Dalai Lama is not even a vegan believe it or not. Its true. Check his youtube video, where he was speaking to a University about it. He said he tried it..but (you know his humor), it was too hard. Everyone just does the best that they can.

    Also; it is one’s choice, where the division line lies within how much or ‘any’ animal products that they choose to consume. This world is about realism within hyperrealism. All is real and nothing is real. It’s your choice, and if a woman is faced with an unwanted pregnancy; it should be her choice as well. In a perfect world…no woman would ever have to choose. However; in this upside down and backwards one….we sometimes do. That’s all.

    1. Fish are going extinct due to fishing. Driving is part of animal agriculture. Animal agriculture is the top cause of climate change, more than all transportation combined. The question was pro/anti choice and vegan. Not how-do-you-defend-harming-animals. Pescetarian is better than all out carnivore, but you can make the statement that we all do our best and sometimes that’s flawed without trying to also defend harming and killing animals and destroying the environment by making off “food chain” and “you drive” comments.

  22. My body, my choice, my yoni, my vagina, my womb, my health, my body, my choice, my yoni, my vagina, my experience, my voice, my body, my baby, my life, my choice, my pussy, , my decision, my choice, my choice, my choice. PRO CHOICE. I AM PRO-CHOICE.

  23. I see it in these terms: you are either for people being able to make choices about their reproductive systems or you’re not.
    Many people are vegan because they don’t support animals having to give up their products without consent. It seems perfect that you would be vegan and support a person’s right to make decisions about their body.

    I’ve been pro-choice before I knew I was pro-choice. As a child, my parents always told me that my body is mine, and it seemed perfect that I would support being able to make decisions about my body. The state has no business forcing people to give birth.

  24. Choice, choice, choice! I know not everyone here considers him/herself an “animal rights” person as it extends beyond veganism. But for those who do I feel it is imperative not to bear children to remain ethically consistent. However, because fertility legislation in the US has historically been racist and sexist this should not be legislated either. All fertility matters should be a matter of CHOICE. (More on my argument here if you are interested:

  25. I also reject the term pro-life and I prefer the term forced-birth because that’s all they care about: forcing people to give birth, to use their bodies against their will. I am a pro-choice (or pro-reproductive rights/justice) vegan. I don’t think it is oxymoron at all. We respect the right to bodily autonomy of sentient beings – and that’s why vegans don’t consume milk or eggs, because they belong to the female that produced them. My body belong to me. Nobody gets to dictate what happens to my body. Nobody can use my body without my CONSENT. I don’t think anti-choice vegans are any better than anti-choice meat-eaters. Maybe they are less hypocritical but the difference stops there. Both are misogynists that want to control women’s bodies and don’t care about women dying from unsafe abortions.

    1. But it’s okay for a person to kill life in their body? murder isn’t any more justified because it takes place in a mother’s womb – in fact it’s all the more barbaric and inhumane

  26. Abortion lies directly at the bisection of animal and female rights. For humans, the issue is predominantly white, middle-class males trying to force restrictive anti-abortion laws on women, removing their agency and control over their own bodies.
    Similarly, animal reproduction is controlled by humans. We genetically engineered chickens to produce more eggs than they ever would naturally, we control their surroundings to bring about breeding early, artificial insemination etc. All these methods are just representative of the need for males to control females both human or animal.

    1. Do you think like this about all the animals that are killed? that’s also not happening to your body – not your business simple as you say.

      1. Jasmine, you are advocating a false equivalence between the animals that humans exploit and fetuses. Fetuses aren’t sentient, the animals humans eat are. Intestinal parasites are alive, too, and possibly even sentient, yet nobody is arguing that men or women don’t have the right to rid their bodies of them. Saying that people have the right to stop anything else from living inside their bodies but on the other hand that women have the right not to be forced to carry a fetus to term is sexist, pure and simple.

  27. I could never see myself getting an abortion, because I don’t know if I could sleep at night! As a vegan I do believe all life is sacred. And I do think life begins at conception.

    But that said, I do think that sometimes there are times when abortion may be a kinder choice. Sometimes there might be medical reasons for an abortion. Maybe the unborn child gets diagnosed with a really severe disability which will mean a very unhappy and/or short life for the child. If a heroine addict falls pregnant I definitely think an abortion is best if the addict cannot make some big changes very fast. Finally if someone is pregnant as a result of rape, I don’t think forcing those pregnancies is a good idea. Really, I don’t think there should be any laws about it. It should be an option – so I guess I am pro-choice, BUT I would not think very much of someone who got an abortion just because they did not take responsibility to use contraception and just found the pregnancy inconvenient. But it sucks that when it comes to sex it’s everyone’s responsibility, but when it comes to abortion, it’s all on the woman, that’s a huge burden.
    I definitely don’t think I am qualified to speak for others on this, no one is though, so that’s what I’m trying to say.

    It makes me mad that people can go so upset over this issue, go all ape shit pro-life but go home and eat a steak with a clear conscience! bit hypocritical in my opinion. But maybe I am also a hypocrite being vegan pro-choice too? good topic!!

  28. Being pro-life and supporting the torture of animals is hypocritical. So is being a vegan, vegetarian and being pro-choice UNLESS you are doing it strictly for health reasons. I am a pro-life, ALL LIFE vegan I don’t understand how you can hate the fact animals are being hurt and killing a “fetus” that may or may not feel pain. I just don’t understand :/

    1. “All life” except the life of the conscious adult pregnant person with a fetus inside her… Take away that choice and you open the door to forced sterilization, dangerous abortions, more reproductive and sexual control of women, and full orphanages. If you put the life of a zygote ahead of the life of an adult human than that is not “pro-life”. That is misogyny.

  29. I can’t believe some of the ridiculous comments on here by people who are vegans and yet pro abortion! If you are so ethical on what you eat it is just shocking and hypocritical that you do not follow the same ethics when it comes to the life of a human baby. I read someone saying that there is nothing wrong with abortion – as miscarriages happen? what planet are you on? That’s like saying there is nothing wrong with murder because people die naturally too. There is nothing more annoying than people who are priggish about morality when it comes to food and yet so hypocritical when it comes to human life. And for those saying it’s the mother’s choice, and talking about this process as if it’s virtually natural – no it’s not, you are INTERVENING in the most UNNATURAL way possible.

    Such morality is based on some sort of selfish convenience, we’ll be vegans because it’s healthy and morally uprighteous but when it comes to having to deal with the consequences of sex – oh well we’d like to reassure ourselves that it would still be okay to abort, just so we don’t have to confront a serious conflict or morality within ourselves. The problem really is that people have lost all regard for the sacredness of sex – people are too ready to go and screw anyone. If you’re having sex – be prepared to get pregnant. If you don’t want to share a baby with this person – then really the question why are you having sex with them. Having sex purely for pleasure with no real commitment to the other and consequences of sex is where the problem lies, this pursuit for self centred fun is immoral – and yes that’s why unwanted kids are sadly born, but that does not mean that they do not have the right to life. To really understand your views on abortion you need to understand views on sex. If you can give so much consideration to what you eat – well you just need to give a little more consideration to sex.

    And then there are women who have had abortions and repented them their entire lives – unsurprisingly as it goes against a mother’s natural instinct. And then imagine if a woman aborts a perfectly healthy foetus, thinking one day she’ll have a child with the right partner – and the opportunity never arises. What a tragedy! We should be supporting women to have children – this is their natural right, and whilst I do believe a child needs both parents, a mother’s love for her child and his for her is plenty.

    And about most abortions being carried out when the foetus can’t feel pain – well we don’t know that, and abortions up to 24 weeks in the UK is legal. And at 23 weeks more and more babies who are born prematurely are surviving, so many of these aborted babies could live. Just because it’s in a woman’s belly does not mean it’s not life. If abortion wasn’t so easy then people would probably be forced to taking contraception and sex more seriously. All scriptures agree that it’s morally wrong. I can’t believe human beings can justify murder for their convenience. See a ten week scan and then consider if you can abort. Even younger foetuses have been shown to wriggle and move away from the tools barbarically used to remove them. A foetus IS LIFE – human intersection that is required to kill this life AFFIRMS THAT THIS IS LIFE – otherwise you would not need to intervene to kill it. It’s murder full stop. And of the most barbaric sort – as it is of an innocent baby simply pursuing it’s desire to live.

    See what abortion looks like – seeing tiny limbs and hands that have taken full shape – and then say it’s not bloody murder. The hypocrisy just makes me sick. It’s sad that our values are so low – we think something like this is right, and that taking a woman’s child from her is seen as giving her choice. The fact that abortion is so easily available means men can have sex as easily as they want, I don’t think it’s just about giving a woman choice, and murder is not an ethical choice.

    1. Contrary to the hype, late abortions are rare. Only 1.6% of abortions in the UK happen after 20 weeks – and they need compelling reasons.

  30. I’m not a vegan. As I was watching a nature show about animals tonight I had this thought, how many vegetarians were pro abortion, then I thought how about vegans? What do they think about it? How can they be so against killing animals but not humans?

      1. Actually, Hitler being a vegetarian is a myth that is constantly perpetuated. His biographers describe his love for Bavarian sausages and wild meat. His own chef said that Hitler;s love for stuffed pigeon:

        The myth that Hitler was an atheist is also commonly spread around even though a) it is false and b) even if he was an atheist/vegetarian, his lack of belief in a god and his abstaining from eating meat are not the CAUSE of him doing evil.

  31. I was a vegetarian and then a vegan for 15 years, but gave it up because I became tired of being associated with the vast majority of vegans I kept meeting who were pro-legalized abortion AND who saw nothing wrong in taking pharmaceutical drugs, even though they often contain animal body parts (vaccines) and are tested on animals in a cruel manner. When vegans come out just as strongly against using meds tested on animals, then I will have respect for their views. Until then, they are hypocrites.

  32. I am a veggie and I am ethically/morally/spiritualy against most abortions but maybe the work for decreasing abortions that is most important right now is more of ethical nature than legislative nature. To prevent abortions there are 3 important fronts to work on that are : a) prevent pregnancies b) help to open alternatives to abortion when pregnancy is already a fact and c) affect attitudes and values ammong both men and woman. Sometimes it is the man who more or less pushes the woman to abortion (not so seldom I think). No matter the legislation it is possible to decrease the numer of abortions much I think. I have a zero-vision , but of course in medical emergency situations I do not oppose abortion if there is a choice between 2 lifes. To me life is sacred and I am a believer in Christ, but there are today also atheist and agnostics against abortions.

    1. If you take an ethical position on killing animals and use that as a basis for not eating flesh, but at the same time are pro abortion believing the fetus is not a conscious being and therefore abortion is not killing/murder, it sort of follows that it is acceptable to eat an aborted animal. You can get your protein without a conscience. Perhaps this is a future vegan industry, conscience free meat?

      1. But where would you propose obtaining the aborted animals from? The reason abortion for humans is ethical is because we are able to choose to have this procedure. If a human was forced by another party to have an abortion it would no longer be an ethical abortion. Can you imagine a method of obtaining aborted fetuses from non-human mammals that wouldn’t be exploitative and just as harmful to them as other forms of exploitation, like dairy and egg production?
        I think we’ve got all the protein we need from plant sources, no need to search for more from non-humans. Other than in vitro meat, if that can be made affordable would be great to direct to all the stubborn humans who just *can’t* give up meat.

  33. I had an unplanned pregnancy when I was vegan. It was a difficult time; my parents were upset and my boyfriend was insisting on a termination for so many reasons, including my schooling, financial circumstances, and that the child would be miserable, and it was a kindness to abort. But, if I couldn’t eat a calf or a chicken or even an egg, how could I kill the perfectly-formed little human I saw on the 12-week ultrasound, for my own convenience? I could have found many, many, many great reasons why I couldn’t have a child, but I could see that they all ultimately came down to my own convenience. In the end I decided to have the baby and give it up for adoption, because there are so many people who can’t have kids and want them. But, as the baby grew, things started to fall into place. I’m rather anti-religious, but oddly, my Catholic acquaintainces were super-helpful and offered to take me in, gave me tons of emotional support too. Offering me a place to stay, food, etc, was the most important: it gave me a ‘worst case scenario fall-back plan’ that made me more confident in dealing with worry and anxiety from others. In the end I kept the baby girl, everyone else just sorta fell into line once I knew what I was doing, and 17-month old Ivy Rose now has her dad and grandparents wrapped around her finger. I thank my vegan diet (and Catholic friends) for that 🙂

  34. I am vegan and pro-life because I believe that life begins at implantation. The universe puts babies in the wombs of their mothers because it is the safest place in the world for them. I am also anti-war and anti-death-penalty.

  35. I’m Christian, vegan and I do not support unnecessary harm, exploitation or killing of any human or animal–whether born or preborn.

      1. An unwanted baby is an unwanted baby irrespective of it’s genesis. If a foetus has rights then the foetus result of rape has as much right to life as the one accidentally conceived on a one night stand, or indeed conceived by any woman at any time.

        The question is an ethical one about foetus rights.

        There is a saying, ‘Don’t let perfect get in the way of better’. We may not like abortion but making it illegal will never work. Protected sex is not a choice for many women.

        We can argue to no end or we can improve contraceptive methods and education making both universally available and free like vaccines.

        It is in all our interests* to limit population growth as ethically and responsibility as we can.

        Killing a foetus is terrible but cannot be stopped. We can only do what we can and that is to stop the pregnancy in the first place.

        *Accept this is another bigger discussion for another time.

  36. I am 100% pro-choice and anti “pro-life”. I am a pro-feminist. An embryo is not sentient. Late abortions are slightly more problematic as the foetus becomes sentient but I am still pro-choice because the interests of the mother/family and of the unwanted child to not be born far outweigh the interests of the embryo.

  37. We who question abortions could ,maybe with success, sometimes use an ethical perspective instead of a legislative: That is the perspective : “EVEN if it is a legal choice-STILL don´t do an abortion (unless in extreme cases such as a medical emergency where there is a choice between two lifes)! It is about Changes of the hearts in both men (who sometimes push their woman to abortion) and woman. We vegetarians and vegans who speak also for animals have a special chance to be credible on this issue because we are consequent in speaking for sentient Life. “Pro choicers” expect me as “pro lifer” to be supporting for example meat-eating, war and Death penalty. But instead I am opposed to all those things. I can Point at what it means being consequent in attitudes towards the value of living beings.

  38. Besides all that safe sex stuff; a baby has no nervous system so no “feeling”. No person honestly knows when the “soul” and conscious come into play so leave that out but up until the end of about five months (GIVE OR TAKE A WEEK OR TWO BECAUSE EVERY WOMAN IS DIFFERENT) when it is developing its nervous system, they’re about the same. So how can you say plants don’t feel or they don’t know when neither does that baby? Strictly off those things. You can say the baby is a part of you and Ill say we all came from the ground. So none of that because then we’ll get into beliefs and you can’t go off that because those things are invalid. Strictly numbers and facts. I’m not trying to argue or pick. I really want a solid answer to educate myself on how people think about this.

  39. Firstly, I am a vegetarian and not a vegan (if that matters). The fact that I respect life so much is why I’m pro-choice. Life means nothing without the freedom to control something as fundamental as your body, fertility, and conception. To me it is irrelevant whether or not the embryo/fetus is a life or not. Even if it is a life, a woman should not be forced to use her kidneys, liver, lungs, blood, etc to sustain it. We do not compel people to donate organs and blood even if it would save lives. So why should women be compelled to “donate” her body to sustain another life if she is unwilling?

    That is my main rational for being pro-choice. As for my vegetarianism, I was raised as a vegetarian because of my parents’ religious beliefs (I am now an atheist though.) I do not think veganism and being pro-choice are incompatible. They are both about respecting life and autonomy.

  40. I started out a meat eating pro-lifer until someone pointed out the hypocrisy in it. Now I see all animals as equal and am Vegan because I see no difference between killing of one animal and another. I think that pro-choice philosophy is incompatible with being the kind of Vegan I am now. It isn’t about just a healthy diet, but about non-violence.

    1. I started out slightly the other way around as a vaguely pro-choice (although I think mainly in “hard” cases such as rape) vegan, but I eventually at some point saw the contradiction, it is about not harming others unless absolutely necessary and for me the only possible reason for abortion now would be emergency to save the mother’s life, not rape, not disability, not because the baby is not wanted.. only to save the mother’s life and thankfully that is very rarely needed.

      1. And I can fully agree with that. I don’t really think that the vast majority of abortions are to save the life of the mother but are done for entirely different reasons. One of my real pet peeves is gender selection abortion. Killing somebody based on not having the genitalia they want is pretty messed up.

  41. Do not kill ANY mammal for any reason, except fetuses are fair game. The definition of hypocrisy to fit your own beliefs.

  42. Part 1:
    If you are fully supported by machines, then we can argue that the operator of these machines can end your life at his convenience. Well maybe he wants to save the hospital money and electricity because they do really cost much. But thankfully that is not allowed in our time. Because the only time we can remove machines is when you are brain dead. Although you feel nothing because you are in coma, we have to wait for you BRAIN to die first before we end your life. Now a fetus has a functioning brain at week 10. therefore you cant end his/her life after week 9 just becuase its not at the operator convenience (ie mother) or because his skin doesnt feel pain. >>see part 2

    1. Let’s try another exercise, since people with uteruses are not machines, they are people with human rights.

      Let’s say someone needs a blood transfusion or they will die. But they have a very rare condition that only allows them to accept blood from a few people in the world. Let’s say the only person the hospital could find that could donate this life saving blood (which is a safe, easy procedure, way safer than pregnancy) is you.

      Guess what? No one can force you to donate that blood. That’s called bodily autonomy. It’s a human right.

      In fact, it’s a human right we extend to corpses–we cannot take life-saving organs from corpses without consent.

      There’s no way we can give people with uteruses LESS human rights than a dead body.

  43. Part 2:
    Now, imagine if your brain is dead but has potenial to be repaired by new medical technology. Is it still ok to remove your machines and let you die. Or give you a second chance because there is a hope for you to wake up. Now fetus before week 10 has not only a potential or hope but really is going to get his brain fully developed soon, so who told you he has less rights than that brain dead patient.

  44. Women who get drunk and have sex with some dude are not victims. Yes I believe being a vegan and pro choice is a hot mess. Your argument is animals have no say. Well, neither does the baby. You can call it a clump of cells all you want, but most abortion methods are using a vacuum the careful suck the baby out the same the organs to be sold off. They even try to keep the baby alive to save the organs. In order to kill a baby. they have to go inside and rip off the legs and arms and stuck out the rest of the body in parts.

    Not only is being a pro choice vegans stupid, but calling yourself a pro choice feminist is stupid. Science shows that more girls are born than boys. Feminist talk about helping women. Protecting women and young girls, but abortions is killing more future women off. Smh!

    if you are black and pro choice you are the lowest scum on earth. You March around yelling black lives matter, but it’s been proven that 76% of planned parenthoods are in black and minority areas, while they slap a white white on it and use celebrties who are more than happy to keep their kids while they tell you to kill yours. Here are some facts:

    1,800 black babies are aborted in the US every day.
    3 million black babies over the next five years
    16 million black babies since 1973

    Black women have wiped out an entire generation of black people because of sexual sin. Blacks population control their own people. This is why they will stay at 12% forever.

    Black women have killed more black lives in 40 years than 500 years of American slavery combine with the civil right moment and the Jim Crow era.

    Black vote for the same liberal, democratic party that fought to kept slavery, made the KKK, made the Jime Crow laws, and voted down every civil right law ever made. And you think democrats like black people. Democrats believe black people are stupid. Planned Parent hood only does 5% of other services, like mamagrams and STd testing. But you have to pay for an abortion and they make billions of dollars from you killing you kid off and then they make more money selling your baby’s parts off.

    Abortion hurts women in general. There is guilt and shame afterwards. You know you stopped a life. You know you murder a life that God made has put inside you. A life that has a soul from the beginning. Even atheist women end up running to churches after they killed their baby because God won’t let them have peace in their heart for they sexual sin and now murder. Women who get abortions are sexual sinner, not rape victims or victims in general. Thank God Jesus Christ can forgive all sin.

    But a least the pigs and cows are okay.

    1. PP’s are in areas that need them the most. No-one is forced to use them and I think it’s very worrying that you would have black women pushed into get illegal abortions to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. This is not empowering black women but removing yet another right from them that white privileged people can access.

  45. Pro-life and vegan, I was vegan first and sat on the fence a bit for a few yrs on this one, then finally decided if I would not want to have been killed before birth so I would not have this life then what right have I to say it is OK for others to do it, just because a pregnancy is not convenient for them (there is adoption after all!).

    I’m having a hard time from a lot of pro-choice vegans in the vegan community on facebook so I am very heartened to see that although we are a minority we are a fairly big one at just over 1/3 of vegans in this poll which is actually quite a large poll too!

  46. Seems like God is not on the pro choice side. These are just a few.

    Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophets of nations. Jeremiah 1:5

    Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person comments is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his/her own body. Corinthians 6:18

    Jesus answered them, ” Truly, trutly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slve to sin. John 8:34

    For you created my inmost parts and you knit me together in my mother’s womb. Psalm 139:13

    The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty give me life. Job 33:4

    So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:27

    Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb and reward. Psalm 127:3

    Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16

    Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you people from afar. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother He named my name. Isaiah 49:1

    Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death ( meaning sent to Hell) Leviticus 24:17

    You shall not murder. Exodus 20:13

    If anyone has any verses where God supports abortion I would love to see it.

    1. That’s fine but those of us who worship the spaghetti monster have a God who is not only pro-choice but pro-abortion…..Get my point?

  47. Pro-abortion. Vegans are concerned with sentient life and a human fetus doesn’t even begin to fit that description until very late in the pregnancy. Meanwhile the addition of extra humans on top of the 230,000 who are added daily (after deaths) will have huge impacts on other sentient life, non-human and human. Human animals have doubled in the last 40 years while wild animals have halved. The exploitation, suffering and killing of farmed animals grows according to our numbers.

    The new human (and it’s many possible descendants) will also needlessly be dragged out of non-existence to experience untold suffering. For these reasons there is an ethical imperative to not add humans.

  48. Vegan and pro-choice.

    First, I want to say this: we live in a messy, complicated world, but we try to do the best we can.

    While I think veganism is a great move in the right direction, I don’t think a truly “cruelty free” diet or life is possible. While much of animal agriculture is undeniably cruel, I think it is anthropocentric and somewhat arbitrary put the “won’t eat it” cut off line at sentience, or possession of nerves that transmit sensations of pain, or belonging to one particular kingdom of life. That said, I think veganism does result in less cruelty and death of other organisms, and additionally is vastly better for nature and the environment as a whole.

    On the same note, I don’t think there is a single satisfying definition of when “life begins.” There is the time of conception, the time when a fetus is viable outside the womb (which could be subject to change with future medical advances), the time the baby is born, etc. But whatever you believe regarding the definition of life, there are a few undeniable facts:

    1) Bodily autonomy is a human right. Having sex is NOT consent to being pregnant (it is a risk, it is not consent). If we can’t take life-saving organs from a corpse without consent, we cannot require a woman to use her body for pregnancy without her consent.

    2) Making abortion illegal does not prevent abortions–it only makes them more dangerous.

    3) The #1 best way to reduce abortion rates is to expand comprehensive sex education and access to birth control. Even if you personally believe in being prolife, if you actually want to do any good at all, focus on THIS, not making abortion illegal.

    As I said. We live in a messy, complicated world, and we try to do the best we can.

    1. “If we can’t take life-saving organs from a corpse without consent, we cannot require a woman to use her body for pregnancy without her consent.”

      Why can’t we take organs from a corpse? That seems strange.

    If you are an ethical vegan it logically follows misantropy, because we (even vegans) are living lifestyles that are not in harmony with the environment and other animal species. We’ve entered the geological period called the Anthropocene were we kill species by the thousands a year. This must be stop. And reducing the population by having no children helps to reduce this impact.

  50. For me, I find that being vegan and prochoice both match my beliefs.
    I find a cognitive dissonance among those who are prolife and nonvegans. The reality of the world is that life is not considered to be sacred. Billions of animals are killed per year for consumption, forests and other habitats are destroyed, animals are going extinct at a rate 1000x times higher than they did before humans, etc. Yet people still eat meat; so it is clear that for most people, life is not sacred. It is human life that they consider to be sacred. And what differs human life from the lives of other animals? Some would argue it is our ability to think critically, our intelligence and our ability plan for the future. Scientists have found that it is not until the 24th week of a pregnancy that consciousness, which requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected nerve cells, arises. So, in order for prolife meat eaters to have a consistent ideology, they should only value human life when it develops consciousness- mainly when the fetus becomes what “makes us human”/ different (in their eyes) from other animals whose lives are not valued. I do not agree with the argument that humans only have consciousness, and that only human lives are sacred. I am a vegan. Meaning that I wish to cause no suffering to any being, be it human or otherwise. But because fetuses don’t have the ability to think until the 6th month, I think that it is really hypocritical for meat eaters to be prolife. How can people be okay with billions of animals suffering, and species going extinct, but not be okay with a woman deciding not to have a baby grow inside her body before the baby develops consciousness which makes the baby different from the other species which you don’t care about?? They can argue all they want that “human lives are much more important,” but what do they think makes human lives more important? Mainly, I think, many believe that humans lives are more important because of their higher brain functions. Well, higher brain functions don’t develop until the later months of a pregnancy. So I think it is really hypocritical for a meat eater to be prolife.
    For me, I am more concerned about sentient beings that are fully aware and conscious right now. Therefore, I am a prochoice vegan. Besides, something that is really important to vegans is preserving the lives of all species. Humans are clearly not dying out- in fact, the human population is growing so rapidly, that soon the planet will barely be able to sustain all the humans, much less the other species. Many animal species are clearly dying out already because of agriculture, environmental destruction and climate change all caused by humans. All animals are at the risk of extinction because of us. Therefore, I feel a profound responsibility to care for these forgotten animals. Beings that feel and think as we do. Because of scientific evidence, I personally don’t think a fetus can feel or think before the later months, so I think that life that can feel and think should be taken into consideration first, namely the woman who is making a choice feelings and life. Now, it is NOT that I find animals to be more important than humans. A important part of veganism is seeing everyone as equal, no matter their gender, color, race, or SPECIES etc. I do all I can to help fellow humans and animals. I can understand that people see animals as “lower forms of life,” I once did too myself. But let us not forget that it if all ants disappeared, the ecosystem would fall into chaos. If all humans disappeared (no that I want that to happen)! the world would be rejuvenated with the life it had before humans came. What I’m trying to say is that I feel that animals and humans should both always be taken into consideration. And that sentient life that is suffering right now, namely the billions of animals being slaughtered year, seems to me to be a more urgent issue then a woman making her own personal medical decisions

  51. Overpopulation will be a problem sooner or later. So, not only out of freedom or choice, if you don’t like wars, we all should be supporting all the respectful ways to reduce that likely problem. i.e. LGTBI movements, gay marriage, non-conventional family structures, transgender, adoption, contraceptives… I’m quite sure power structures are aware of this and some way or another promote these ways of life and others superstructure/culture tools. However personally i’m pro-choice just in criminal cases or alike. Unlike the other options listed abortion is always a sad thing and should be avoided. The aprox. global figures of abortion per year (56million) versus the figures of animals killed by the meat industry (60.000million) have no comparision. I think help has to go where is most needed. Although there’s no dichotonomy, some people want to portray it that way as a medium to undermine activism. Me myself when doing online vegan activism someone answered me: “and what about abortion”. I’m sure, though, I would do and did a number of times the same at hearing someone pro-life i would bring up the vegan issue. I think pro-life non vegan people don’t consider animals have a developed conscience or think that they are just for humans to eat by god command or whatever nonsense. And some vegan prochoice dont think a cell or a fetus has a developed conscience, or even if they have it, the ammount of suffering of an abortion is less than the ammount of suffering without it. Euthanasia is also a related issue. I bet most vegans with an opinion on euthanasia are proeuthanasia, because veganism isn’t necessarily about not killing, but definetely about reducing the suffering. And pro-life are usually against euthanasia in humans but probably it’s ok for them in animals. So, there you go, a bit of speciesism in both sides.

  52. How is this related to veganism? Veganism is about animal cruelty and the effects and limitation of it, it’s not about people.

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